[ST202]Combinés Filetés BC Racing ClubSport BR-RA Superstrut: MONTAGE

Hello,

Je viens de recevoir mes combinés filetés pour ma ST202 ( ma Célica GT est en Superstrut et non Mc Pherson....)
Ce sont des BC Racing Club Sport BR-RA ( version Superstrut)
http://www.bcracingsuspension.com/gammebr.html


Les voilà en photo:








J'en viens à ma question.....:
Est ce que quelqu'un a déjà monté ça sur sa ST202, histoire de me donner des repères pour les réglages de la hauteur de caisse, dureté compression/détente et carrossage à mettre ??? :bball:

Avec des repères, ça me permettrait de faire des préréglages chez moi avant de les apporter pour le montage, au lieu de partir de réglages au pifomètre....

Pour le carrossage, je pense passer faire une géo complète après avoir lu à droite et à gauche des valeurs: je ne ferai pas de piste, donc pas trop de carrossage
Est ce que vous avez les valeurs de géo stock pour ST202 superstrut ?

ça vous inspire pas trop ce sujet

Personne n'a monté ça sur ST202 ou ST205 en superstrut ?
Et même si ce n'est pas en superstrut, des valeurs en montage Mc Pherson sur ST202 me donnerait aussi des indications

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh j'avais pas vu ton topic Eric !

Au niveau de tes valeurs, je n'en ai aucunes à te filer malheureusement.

J'avais monté 4 BC sur mon ex celica de piste mais j'avais un train avant en Mc Pherson et je n'ai jamais pu réaliser le moindre essai comme tu le sais donc bon

Au niveau de la dureté, tu as les mollettes, tout à gauche, c'est au plus souple, tout à droit c'est un bout de bois.

Tu as pris quoi comme tarage ? Celui préconisé pour les ST202 ?

Pour ta hauteur de caisse, c'est à toi de voir, c'est un choix perso, le plus souvent esthétique/pratique.

Pense juste que la superstrut n'aime pas le rabaissement à outrance

Pour ta géo, si tu vas dans un grand centre du style Euromaster, Point S, ils ont les valeurs d'origine pour une ST205 mais aussi une ST202 avec SS, pas d'inquiétude, tu pourras remettre telle que l'origine avec le carrossage qui va bien.

Pas de coupelle réglable à l'arrière ?

Sur mon ex ST205 j'avais du en commander à l'usine BC pour rattraper mon carrossage excessif...

Angelmind a écrit:Pas de coupelle réglable à l'arrière ?
Tu as pris quoi comme tarage ? Celui préconisé pour les ST202 ?

Non non, ya pas. Le carossage ne se règle que à l'avant ( comme presque tous les combinés qui sont réglables...).

En sortie d'usine, les BC pour ST202 sont réglés à 8/30 ( 0 = dur 30=soft), donc orienté assez dur !
Je vais prérégler la hauteur et la dureté chez moi ce soir ( probablement mettre moins dur), montage demain dans un garage

Au fait, apparemment, pour monter les BC Racing en version superstrut, il faut couper les anciennes suspensions juste au dessus de la structure basse superstrut..... puis emboiter les nouvelles dans le trou restant... ça me parait un peu chaud ça.... j'espère que ça va bien se passer...


A. Remove Suspension unit from the car

B. Where "1" is shown, cut off the OE suspension shaft from the superstrut knuckle join. Use suitable cutting tool and do NOT damage the cast knuckle.

C. Fell down any rough edges

D. This will now expose a hole recess in the superstrut knuckle arm.

Oh le délire !

Oui je confirme......

D'ailleurs, je n'avais pas eu ce souci avec mon setup vu que j'avais transformé le train avant de mon ST205 en McPherson...

Bha voilààààà: j'aurai pas cherché longtemps !
Vive les Grand Bretons ! http://www.6gc.net/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t65082.html


____________________DEBUT TOPO MONTAGE____________________
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Hi guys and dolls.

BC have recently developed some coilovers for the ST205.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BC-Adjustable-Coilov...A1%7C240%3A1318

Normally eveyrone in the UK only buy Tein an TRD coilovers and tent to avoid every other brands when it comes to coilover.
Recently in GBP isnt doing so well and Tein has also anounced a huge price increase hence putting me into the "definately cant afford" status.

Well the new BC coilovers have adopted the idea of using the origional housing of the stock Super strut shocks and changing the inserts like the D2, k-sport and G4's. In a nutshell it's a crap design but BC's inserts are different as they require you to cut the stock shocks down and allowing you to use the full length of the coilover shocks.

Here are some pictures I've been sent and I've been convinced to be the first to try a set in the UK.










Untill now I've not heard of BC before in the UK but after doing some research, I've found that they're pretty good.
So what's everyones opinion with BC around the world on other cars? Has anyone experienced using them before?

Ray
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PREPARATION AVANT LA POSE POUR LE TRAIN AVANT:
Manip en photo inside:)

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Last of all the actual inset.
This is the bit which needs to be inserted into the SS legs.
Its seperate from the cyliner and of clean metal allowing you to spot weld it to the legs.

voilà la partie à enfoncer dans les suspension OEM avant après qu'elles aient été sectionnées









The end result was a mnice, smooth and flat surface.


Last night I started working on cutting the stock leg Taras had donated to me for this project.
The aim was to cut the leg down to just the lower section of the superstrut.
The tools I had to do this job with was:

Angle grinder with grinding and cutting blades
hacksaw
File
Vice clamp

And for safety:
Goggles and gloves

I first started by securing the legs in a vice clamp and then began cutting away with the angle grinder.
The first problem was clamping it securely. Because the legs had other bits like the brake hose holder sticking out, I was limited to how to clamp it down and also my angle grinder couln't cut all the way round.





I managed to cut about 2 thirds the way round and about less then a cm away from the bottom.
Using a hacksaw I manually sawed the rest off.

These where the bits that was not needed:



and I was left with this:





Next thing was to change the blades to a grindig blade and stert to take the excess bits down to the bottom and evening it out.




This took a long time because even though I cut the legs down with less then 1cm left, that was still a lot to grind away.
Also towards the end I had to stop, check and grind again trying to make sure that the surface was evenly flat. This really tested my patience.

After when I thought I had finished with the angle grinder, I used a course flat file and started to skim the surface in all directions to ensure the surface was flat.





The end result was a mnice, smooth and flat surface.





Notice how I left about a 1mm edge there.
In the instructions, it dodnt say how far you're suppose to take it down to. I decided to not take it all the way down because I didn't want to risk making a mess with the angle grinder and to give a bit of a lip for when i tap weld it.
As long as both legs are evenly the same there shouldnt be a problem.

So here they are after cutting:





And give them a good wash:




Then finally back home for a test fit:






Now they're looking more like a super strut coil over

NOTE that I didnt insert them fully just in case I had to take them off again.
I was really impress how nicely they fitted into the legs. It was air tight with no play what so ever and I had to tap it a bit to get it that far in. At first I was a bit worried abut it not fitting here because if it was too big, I'd have to drill the leg a bit and too small would mean play and that will ruin everything.
BC had made these insert to fit perfectly and I'm very pleased with it so well done.

Next is to order new bushes as the ones in the legs now are leaking and there's none in stock so I should get them by next week.
Then I'll need to take it to my friends workshop for the leaking bushes to be pressed out and replaced and finally insert the coilovers in and weld them down.


Overvies so far:
Everything is coming to plan and there has been no surprises. The scariest bit is over and I'm a bit relieved.
Cutting the legs took just over 2 hours with the tools I had.
I do want to point out that this was not a job for the faint hearted. I was covered in metal shavings and made a bit of a mess at the garage.
Where as most DIY mechanics are confident with bolt on and bolt off upgrades, this definately requires some engineering confidence and a lot of patiences.
I did enjoy doing this but I can also imagine that a lot of people would be reluctant to give it a try.
However, this only applys to the ST205 superstrut. ST185, and ST202,3,4 BC coil overs wouldn't have to face this problem but I'm sure most ST205 owners wouldnt mind this becasue we are faffers and saving almost a grand with these coilovers if they work.

Bon bha ça va pas être de la tarte : Faut vraiment que l'usinage après la coupe soit propre....
Je peux prévoir une hausse de la MO pour la pause

Pour pouvoir mieux enfoncer les BC dans ses ex suspensions, il a dissocié le filetage du reste



[b]

POSE DES COMBINES SUR ST205 ou ST202:

Un petit post de + pour montrer la pose sur la ST205 du UK boy à venir ce soir: ça fera un chtit résumé en photo que je pourrai montrer au mécano et qui pourra servir à un futur acheteur de BC Racing BR RA pour ST202 ou ST205 supertrut
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FRONT:

Firstly i welded the superstrut legs to the inserts using an ARC weld which is IMO one of the toughest weld and ideal for this situation.
Theo only thing is you only get one chance at it and if you don't have it the correct way round or not lined up properly then your only solution is to cut it off entirely like I did before.

Once welded, I sanded off the old rusty surface from the superstrut legs and sprayed it down. When assembled with the coilover it should look like this:


Again notice that its shorter compared to normal shocks and springs like the rear but remember that the springs on the coilovers are stiffer then normal or lowering springs so with the weight of the car on, it doesn't sink as low as normal shocks and springs.


After changing the crush tubes, installing the coilovers where again straight forward.
Making sure the top mounts where rotated correctly so that the camber travels horizontally.






At first when installing one side I did notice the drop link didn't line up. It was too short.



But then when I took off the old shocks from the other side and put in the coilover, the drop links became equal on both sides and bolted on fine.




However I did have a problem with the brake hoses.
Neither side lined up perfectly so that I could clip them down. It was either at the wrong angle or welded in the incorrect place.
Warning. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO BEND THE BRAKE HOSE TO MAKE IT FIT!!!

This wasn't such a big problem because I simply cable tied it down.



Then I pieced it together and took it for a test drive, came back to set the adjustments.

Just like my initial aim with some comfort and practicality in mind, I set the front accordingly like the rears.
Again with maximum spring travel and making sure there was minimum 80mm within inserted in the bottom ends, the distance between the two ring locks was 30mms.



When fitted it looked like this:






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REAR:

The rear coilovers where incredibly easy to install. I had no problems and issues what so ever. It was a simple bolt off and bolt on and the only thing which held me back was my old drop links in which I ended up angle grinding it off and replacing them with new ones.

As you can see in the picture there was no problems with the 2 bolts unlike the older D2's which didn't line up properly.



Do take note that when lining up the top mounts that the pointiest corner (the peak) points outwards. Took me about 15 mins of turning to realise that it wasn't a perfect triangle formation



The drop links fitted perfectly and the brake cable was a diddle to bolt on.



One thing you'll notice immediately (if you haven't changed anything) is once you've put the rear wheel on, you'll realise how short the rear coilovers are compared to normal shocks. The wheel literally sits within the arches when jacked up.

The other thing is how difficult it is to tighten the deepest top mount bolt through the small gap where the strut brace passes through the boot trim.
The reason being is that you now have the adjustable knob sticking up which adjusts the stiffness of the dampers and that gets in the way of using a normal 12mm spanner so I'd recommend ripping out the boot side trims when installing these. It will save you a lot of cursing and hand cuts.

After I lowered the car the rear was sooooooooooooo low it was ridicules. I took it for a test drive still just for a laugh and found that even though it was set that low, I was still able to go over bumps quite comfortably and nothing bottled out.

Then I jacked the car up again to adjust the height based on the test drive.
First off was the ride comfort.
You immediately notice as expected that coilovers would feel stiffer then shocks and springs.
The factory setting is 8 clicks from soft to hard.

After changing the settings about 5 times I decided to set it to the fallowing:

The springs where set for maximum travel so I could use it's full length. Where as I wanted a stiffer rear I still wanted a comfortable ride and a car which can clear urban city speed bumps.
however even though setting the springs to its maximum length the ride height was still too low.
So then I extended the length by unscrewing the coilover out more to extend the length.



I ended up extending it by 3cm making the total gap between the bottom spring ring lock and the bottom ring lock 5cm's apart.

In the manual it says that for a macpherson setup should have a minimum of 80mm's inserted in the bottom end and for a A setup to have 25mm's inserted.
There is more then 25mm left still in the rear bottom legs so I didn't have to worry.
As for the damper setting, I decided to keep it at 18 clicks.

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This time the front dampers where set a bit softer then the rear at just 12 clicks from soft to hard.
It was still harder then stock setting and any more made me feel that every speed bump started to feel a bit like a bang.

And this is what the car looks like now with the coilovers on.



Its a little bit higher then my TRD lowering springs but not as high as stock height.

I took the car into alignment and had the front cambers set to 1deg out and rear at 0 for better then stock cornering ability.
On my way, I found myself flying over speed bumps and pot holes without a worry and cornering much harder then I was able to before with KYB shocks and TRD lowering springs.

There was no clunking, banging or any signs of the front end bottling out.
The rear end started to slide out easier when set on hard and I have stock ARB. It did not skip across lanes like the D2's where described. It was actually controllable.
I felt like I have a new car again and when driving, it handled a lot like a go kart around the bends. The feed back and response from the shocks wasn't at all uncomfortable and the car felt very well planted when hammering hard in 3rd gear around the bends at boost.

I never felt that I was able to corner this hard and felt this stable when I had up rated shocks and springs even though when I did change to that previous setup, I was already over the moon.


Overall ratings and thoughts:

First impressions was a lot more impressive then what I had expected. The build quality is of a very high standard and on paper the spec does sound impressive. eg. Bigger girth is always better. smile.gif
What's involved in the installation can be scary for any amateur home DIY mechanic and is defiantly not for the faint hearted.
However I was expecting a lot worse and through out the process I was constantly praying that the front superstrut wouldn't develop a problem and could deliver usable performance.
Despite the mix up with the instructions and the front brake clips being not so perfect, this entire experience was actually quite enjoyable and very very rewarding.
The BC coilovers are definitely worth the upgrade and dramatically improved the handling of the ST205.
With such limited range of coilovers out there for the ST205, the BC had successfully offered a very competitive yet affordable option.
In fairness, though there are roomers that they're made from the same factories as where the D2, k-sport and G4 coilovers are made, BC are a seperate entity and differs in design and spec compared to those other brands and so I couldn't really place BC at the same level as the other brands but yet I cant class them the same as the leading brands like TRD and Tein.
I have to say that I was a little bit disappointed that BC didn't offer adjustable top mounts for the rear because most GT4 track users would adjust the front and rear camber a bit however I gusee this could easily be resolved by buying adjustable camber bolts for the rear.


My other thoughts are what problems these could develop in future?
The Tein, Cusco and TRD top mounts do corrode a bit when exposed to rain mainly due to the fact that we have a vent directly over it.
Where as these top mounts do look very strong and sturdy, I would have to wait and see what nature will do to them and if it exposes the qualities of the materials used.
Also its just a matter of time untill someone test BC when they're in need for a rebuild. With these being so unique and so exclusive to certain distributers I hope that wouldn't be me anytime in the near future.

At the moment I'm still very happy and excited like I've come out the show room with a new car but time will expose more issues.

Yes I did run into set backs and yes it is much more of a job compared to other coilovers but you cant say you're a faff owner unless you've really faffed about with your four can you?

For around £600-700 for a set of coilovers with superstruts that actually works... BC have really set a new standard for us to all think about.

______________________FIN DU TOPO________________________


...

Super ton topo. Merci
Au final, on peut rabaisser de combien à l'avant ?

Jayger a écrit:Super ton topo. Merci
Au final, on peut rabaisser de combien à l'avant ?

Bin ça c'est la grande question à laquelle BC Racing France ne sait pas répondre....

Pour la hauteur de caisse minimum possible devant, je pourrai vous dire ça une fois que je les aurai fait monté, par contre pour vous donner la hauteur relative par rapport à l'origine, il faudra que quelqu'un qui est stock de chez stock ( amortos et ressorts superstrut stock toyota ST202, et jantes d'origine pour ST202) mesure de son côté, sinon on ne saura pas...

En regardant de prêt, c'est quand même pas mal de bidouille, tout ça.
Découpes + soudures. Le rêve de Mac Jayger !

à noter qu'il y a le même genre de différences pour les TEIN Super Street, entre leur version McPherson et Superstrut: la plage de réglage de hauteur vers le bas des Superstrut est réduite.





==> rabaissement maxi possible de l'avant en TEIN:
pour ST202 supertrut: ---> -4cm
pour ST202 McPherson:--> -7cm ( là pour poser la célica il doit falloir creuser )

Jayger a écrit:En regardant de prêt, c'est quand même pas mal de bidouille, tout ça.
Découpes + soudures. Le rêve de Mac Jayger !

lol oui, ça fait un peu "Do It Yourself"
Mais quand même, normalement, ya pas de soudures à faire

Bon en contrepartie, le gros plus des combinés BC Racing c'est qu'en rapport comportement / prix, nombre de réglages / prix et qualité de construction / prix, c'est apparemment très bon.
Ceux qui en ont monté sur leur ST202 ou ST205 Superstrut en Angleterre sont contents du comportement.

On verra bien

Non, non !
Il faut bien souder l'amortos au bras d'origine.

Jayger a écrit:Non, non !
Il faut bien souder l'amortos au bras d'origine.

Ha oui tu as raison ! Le grand Breton l'a fait.
Then I'll need to take it to my friends workshop for the leaking bushes to be pressed out and replaced and finally insert the coilovers in and weld them down.

Et j'avais pas fait gaffe à ça sur la notice en Anglais:
" PIC. 3: Make sure the BC BR coilover insert fits snug and level into the superstrut Knuckle and weld around at the point "3"

Et c'est bien là ( "3") qu'on voit sa soudure...



Le garage où je dois aller a un bon soudeur, ça ira: ce qui va me faire stresser ce sera surtout de retirer les suspensions sans rien casser ( ça doit être grippé de chez grippé: faudra que j'attaque ça au WD40 2 jours avant d'amener ma caisse...), et la découpe et le lissage de la structure superstrut....
J'espère que le gars va s'appliquer....

Montage en cours... priez pour ma belle, parce que si ils se loupent sur mes amortos d'origine, je suis pas près de re-rouler avec....

hate de voir ce que ça va donner !

j'avais pas vue ton post , j'ai monté les miens sur ma st202 il y a quelque temps mais je suis pas en supertrust .

Voila la hauteur régler d'origine des bc racing en type mcpherson




c'est quand même un sacrée boulot les supertrust , que se soit niveau de la fatigue des rotules et le changement de la suspension .

Il y a un vrai gros changement de comportement de la voiture avec se type la ?

Sinon niveau écrous j'ai eu aucun problème de grippage , le seul truc vraiment chiant ca été de réinstaller les bar antirouille .

Donne nous tes première impression sur le comportement de la voiture et ton réglage de dureté et hauteur .

Redji, c'est la photo où tu as pas mal de carrossage à l'arrière ?

c'est surtout que ma jante est en 17x7 ET 35
Donc la jante rentre dans l'aile arrière .
on s'en rend mieux compte ici


Je pense que la suspension bc racing donne un peu de carrossage aussi mais ca reste léger.

redji01 a écrit:j'avais pas vue ton post , j'ai monté les miens sur ma st202 il y a quelque temps mais je suis pas en supertrust .

Voila la hauteur régler d'origine des bc racing en type mcpherson

Moi non plus j'avais pas lu dans ton projet : ça m'apprendra !
Vraiment superbe ta Beams !
Donc tu confirmes qu'à cette hauteur, tu n'as pas de talonnage dans les compressions avec tes BC Racing réglés au plus mou ?


Perso en Superstrut, je pense que les BC Racing vont me faire remonter un peu même réglés au plus bas: avec la version superstrut on perd en possibilité de ce côté là.
Je suis assez bas en ce moment, même un poil trop... et avec les amortos qui étaient en fin de vie, et des ressorts courts de qualité médiocre posés par l'ancien proprio, c'était pas le pied dès que la route était un peu ondulée...: limite talonnage et mauvaises réactions: de ce point de vue les BC Racing vont me changer la vie, c'est sûr !
( c'était très bon sur du billard par contre, le feeling, guidage et accroche du train avant en superstrut est très bon ! ).

J'espère que ça ne remontera pas trop quand même !
La voilà avant montage:



L'arrière est un peu plus haut que l'avant: je crois que je la garderai un peu piquée vers l'avant, ça a l'air de donner un assez bon équilibre en virage: en théorie un peu moins de sous-virage, et j'ai un peu de survirage en provoquant en appui quand je veux m'amuser un peu ( sur le mouillé c'est net, mais bon, mes pneus moins bons à l'arrière doivent jouer aussi dans ce sens...)





Avec les BC, photos dans qqs temps.... j'espère !